SAM KEAN: It does, it does make kind of a folk sense. I wouldn't want to put it up to chance, because what kind of life is that? He was a born nurturer and he adored animals. Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. LULU: And were trying to think about how do we keep it the same in a lot of ways, but also how do we let it grow into something beyond what it was originally built to be. He's the guy who told us about Olov's work. This is what's called the slow growth period. In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a collision course and discover how outside forces can find a way inside us, and change not just our hearts and minds, but the basic biological blueprint that we pass on to future generations._Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today. by Nolan Moore. She was totally an oops kid. Although, you know, sometimes that your grandfather's suffering helps you. The results are there. It's a small forest area, very beautiful. Radiolab: From Tree to Shining Tree LISTEN Three guests: Suzanne Simard, a professor of forest ecology and teacher at the University of British Columbia, Jennifer Frazer, a science writer that has a blog called The Artful Amoeba, and Roy Halling, a mycologist. So much can happen after that. JAD: What you see in the records, is that one year PEJK MALINOVSKI: 100 liters. His example with humans was a blacksmith. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: You know, you've got all these chemicals around. If you were a great rat mommy, what would you be doing with your rat baby? PAT: Lynn has become one of Barbara's fiercest critics. PAT: And I just felt like it was in one of those moments that contains everything that's good about us as people. You know, just take a little peek for themselves, and every time Kammerer said no, they were his specimens. PAT: Barbara says they've reached out to her many times but they never heard back. I think I was really horrified and terrified. PAT: And even though they look basically nothing alike. I'm going to graduate with honors and one day I'm going to be able to tell her, "Look, I did this. And you have to bear in mind that at this point, it only had one hand left. Where we began, they will accomplish. ROBERT: Which turn out to be an interesting thing to look at it because the people in verkalix who were farming SAM KEAN: Trying to eke a living out of the soil. JAD: Michael was in school and he got interested in a very, very basic question about how things get passed down? And as of 11:01 a.m. on Tuesday, when were recording this, we have not broken the show. Listen to the first three stories of the "Inheritance" Radiolab Podcast (Control + click on link to access podcast. So now, the genes can make the proteins that make the rats a good mom? So if they saw somebody who was starving as a kid in 1820, they could then see, "Well, when those people had children and grandchildren, did anything change? She's somewhere, but it's not good from what we've heard. CARL ZIMMER: He actually named his daughter Lacerta, which is a genus of lizard. Move on to the next cage, yes, no? JAD: To fellow named Jean-Baptiste Pierre Antoine de Monet, chevalier de Lamarck. Accuracy and availability may vary. JAD: Theyd basically starve. Not usually because it upsets people and I'm Canadian. And all over the political spectrum, from Hollywood lefties to social conservatives. JAD: Because you begin with a mother's lick that ends up with a deep, deep change in the baby, not just the good, warm, fuzzy feeling, but a fundamental shift in who that baby is, and who that baby will be. Truth is, we dont know precisely how this happens but somehow the experience of starvation marks the DNA. We inherited this beloved show that we first fell in love with as listeners. Well, yep, that is so true. And he was going through withdrawal. JAD: I mean, were not gonna do that ourselves. Its something I still think about all the time. Plus, find other cool things we did in the past like miniseries, music videos, short films and animations, behind-the-scenes features, Radiolab live shows, and more. You feel kind of hemmed in by what your grandfather did? I mean, when you look at the records, you don't see huge spikes in mortality. BARBARA HARRIS: I mean, I'm married to a Black man. JAD: So its like grandpa's struggle is jumping forward and giving me a leg up? Kick off certain hormonal systems. Well, lets not get too excited too fast because we have a story to tell and this tale leaves me a little queasy. That's interesting. CARL ZIMMER: mouse or rat? In a very real way, weve been thinking a lot about inheritance. JAD: The sneaky idea here is that the blacksmiths, the giraffes, they made it happen. I had a little basketball for her. Or is it? This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. I know! PAT: So by now it's 1994, and Barbara is thinking PAT: You know? ], I'm going to go out into the streets and offer addicted women money to use birth control. Live shows were first offered in 2008. About 30 years ago-. We have experts even in very specific fields of study, so you will definitely find a writer who can manage your order. That was it. And that advantage, whatever it was, because it starts with one individual, and then it gets passed onto the kids, and then onto their kids, it would take a long, long, long time to spread through the whole population because, generally, that's how evolution works. JAD: Don't you see, somehow the mother's tongue is getting all the way down in there and going [mumbles] and messing with the baby's DNA. Like Id be like, Weve got the keys, were gonna trash the house., LATIF: Anyway, we think about that all the time and I was just talking to Lulu about that and she was just like, You know, theres a radiolab about this.. Famine again, and these changes would just bounce back and forth. They have found very similar effects for smoking, for instance. Most toads, he says, love to stay in the water. So yeah, she keeps me busy. PAT: Nobody's arguing that women should do drugs when they're pregnant. Where we began, they will accomplish. That's really impressive. JAD: So imagine the DNA in that brain cell. Stretching got into the baby. I didn't see them as people. _. Radiolab is on YouTube! With NPR's Rough Translation. I just didnt think. JAD: Famine again, and these changes would just bounce back and forth. And to believe anything else, that's naive. PAT: Last I heard she was living on the streets in LA. BARBARA HARRIS: They were seven and eight at the time. Just a little. OLOV BYGREN: Looking for patterns in cardiovascular diseases, high blood pressure, and such. CARL ZIMMER: Is your wife going to hear this? I mean, he hates water. This is nice and quiet. I know I've been joking a lot in this interview, but I mean it with all that I am. PAT: Could you just tell us what you are doing now? They both say that they actually often forget that they're not biologically related. And they had more. To her, I matter. ROBERT: Kammerer, for one, was sent off to work as a sensor for the Austrian military. Barbara tried to get a law passed requiring just that. Is it a big town? So he actually went to Vienna. JAD: No, not brain cells. I went to the hospital and picked him up. But what exactly. JAD: But were gonna play you stories where JAD: This is Radiolab. These people are paying millions of dollars to take care of your children!]. Which I find kind of hard to believe but, then again, I must have read at least 100 news articles as I was reporting this story. So we did stop. PAT: Like shed give the women a choice. But the story he told us begins around 25 years ago. Are you nine? More of this particular protein. And, I mean, I have straight A's and I'm making it work. He thought that you could kind of engineer societies by changing the environment. BARBARA HARRIS: "I want to thank you for your support and kindness as always." It's against the rules. Well, I guess I was thinking we could just start at the beginning. JAD: He works at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden where he studies population data. He's not even eating at all. But, I said this to Lynn, "Despite all the things that trouble me about Barbara's program, I feel like what she's trying to do is to stop a kid from getting born into a childhood that's going to suck.". JAD: I initially felt very hopeful and excited about this research because it seems to suggest that a body, one body can respond to an environment and change and be flexible in a way we didn't think was possible. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: This is real physical-chemical interaction between what's going on in the environment and what's going on with the DNA. ROBERT: Including a particular amphibian that plays a very big part in this story. ROBERT: You mean, if you had a starving grandfather, you would be a healthier boy for the because you had a starving grandfather? MICHAEL MEANEY: That's it. PAT: Who gave Destiny her first checkup told Barbara BARBARA HARRIS: That she was delayed and she was always going to be delayed because of her prenatal neglect. BARBARA HARRIS: Light bothered him, noise bothered him. Destiny has, what, three brothers and sisters that also were raised with her? [expletive] That was awesome. ROBERT: Well, that's the good news, but unfortunately there is some bad news here. This is the verkalix church parish record. SAM KEAN: And the key point is that it wasnt something inborn in them. Maybe more. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: Methyl groups are pretty sticky, they're hard to get off. And one of them is called the thyroid system. This great. Or did I somehow learn that? [ARCHIVAL Clip, Daytime Talkshow: You know what they're going to go do with that money. Part 2 of our collaboration with Radiolab. Once their born, their genes are fixed and change does not happen in a generation or two. We spay them. But here's what I did not know about DNA. JAD: One parent stretching isnt going to do anything, see thats the bummer of Darwinian evolution. DESTINY HARRIS: That's my little girl. Like, mine are bigger, you know." I think all parents do this, is that you slip into this Lamarckian delusion that What you do with your kids can somehow rewrite all of that. Okay, all right, this is interesting. ROBERT: What do you mean? You must have internet access to do this). You are not God. Yes, but creating an assumption that there is a class of people who don't deserve to procreate, who aren't worthy of procreating the human race, leads you down a path that we should have great concern about. Here, Kammerer's was saying, "You can do this even on a physical level.". JAD: If they see methyl groups sitting on that bit of DNA, they are pissed. In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a co [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: Well, I just want to eliminate drug-addicted babies from being born. CARL ZIMMER: Lamarckism pretty much died there. The little baby that we keep hearing in the background of everything. JAD: Serotonin gets into the brain cells, and according to Michael unleashes MICHAEL MEANEY: A whole series of molecular events inside the cell. Because the Soviets, they believe in Karl Marx's idea that human beings were an improvable species, that if you can change the conditions around people, you change the people. 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