By the way I got your recommended book. Didnt appreciate the joking about drug use. pokmon the series xyz. Your other comments were directly applied to the Megachurch movement I follow the goings-on of the mega church para church neocalvinist movement (call it what you will) in the USA and am frequently astounded by their antics. Again I am glad that you were not criticising the whole mega church movement (although I am sure you will understand why your initial post can be read that way).which megachurches are you happy with? In your second post you again make the false claim that I set Dallas against Chandler. I have not misrepresented what you said. They make their workers and volunteers sign a confidentiality arrangement that they will not disclose anything about the finances of the church, or they will be sued. MacArthur argues that confessing Jesus Christ as Lord is a necessary component of free grace theology. He spoke for an hour without notes and held his audience completely in the palm of his hand he is a brilliant orator using all the tricks of the trade. Your reply was typical of the kind of legalistic posts which I regularly get sent. Last summer I had the privilege to attend and worship at an Acts 29 church plant in Shepherds Bush, and I pray that God would plant more churches like it across the UK. Why not just simply deal with the facts, and leave the name calling aside? It is also grossly unfair (and dishonest) for you to misrepresent my position as making some pastors untouchable. It was not an accusation, nor an attack. Furtick though is unapologetic..he boasted in a sermon all the proceeds go to feed hungry children..mine!. But I find it astonishing that you cite it here in a massive church (and smaller churches) there are bound to be people who are sex abusers and the church will not always handle that well. These views raised controversy within American evangelicalism and were challenged in print by non-lordship dispensationalist theologians Charles Ryrie and Zane C. Hodges, who argued that MacArthur's ministry was teaching a form of works-based salvation. So far there has been no evidence given for assertion. Thats hypocrisy, and no, that doesnt constitute name calling. I was not picking on one church: you offered Matt Chandler as an example of how mega churches get it right and I was replying to that by urging caution. Can you forget your ministries, your programs, and your visions and instead seek to follow Christs? We stray from scripture at out peril: http://www.whatisthegospel.org.uk. When you are ready argue about what is being said here, not what is not being said. He argues that "the battle for the beginning is ultimately a battle between two mutually exclusive faiths faith in Scripture versus faith in anti-theistic hypotheses. "Many of you are praying for Pastor Johns health due to his absence from the pulpit during the second service. Googling information about his ministry will provide a number of discussions of his content. If you are going to reply that something is pathetic can I suggest you avoid capitalising everything. We only do pale imitations of what is not great anyway! (What a great sales pitch why dont you try it next time David I will even make the trip to Dundee to hear you). . Im afraid your post is a classic example of taking a bible verse out of context and using it, whether ignorantly or deliberately to defend sin. He is currently the chancellor emeritus of The Master's University in . The staff expected to have their concerns heard andconsidered. Check out what's clicking on Foxnews.com. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbfoO6hMSLc. And what is your position, from Scripture, on the subject? "[44], In 2020 and 2021, during the COVID-19 global crisis, MacArthur contravened orders from Los Angeles County public health officials regarding services at Grace Community Church, and insisted that no one from the church had become seriously ill, despite reports to the contrary. It never occurs to me for a second to not fulfill it. So I hoped and prayed that this would not become another crash and burn mega church story. Eventually, all lawsuits were settled out of court with the County of Los Angeles and the State of California paying $400,000 each to Grace Community Church. "[34] Regarding eternal security, he states, "It should never be presented merely as a matter of being once saved, always savedwith no regard for what you believe or do. I hope this is mature and open enough for you! I think youve just answered your own question; how very sad. The southern baptist convention of which he has been a part has distanced themselves from his ministry in the past year. Sums it all up. "[43] Moore responded to this stance by stating on her Twitter account, "I did not surrender to a calling of man when I was 18 years old. From an economic standpoint, thats a no brainer. As for Southern Baptists liking Donald Trump, its almost as bad as you liking Scottish Nationalism. John MacArthur is wrong about so much more than keeping women in abusive marriages. 4) Its also not a good idea to claim that you know the motives of someone you dont know. On top of that, MacArthur also took a salary from Grace Community Church that was "well within the upper-medium range" for California church employees, according to Johnson's 2014 statement. Your comment about owning churches is actually ban on the mark. It is an appalling rant already and Ive only read the first couple of chapters. Staff Pastor Tom Patton delivered the sermon in MacArthurs stead, telling churchgoers the senior minister was resting., ***As the number of voices facing big-tech censorship continues to grow, please sign up forFaithwires daily newsletterand download theCBN News app, to stay up-to-date with the latest news from a distinctly Christian perspective.***. "[7][8] MacArthur followed in his father's footsteps to enroll at the fundamentalist Bob Jones College from 1957 to 1959. Join us on Sundays for a full day of teaching, preaching, music, and fellowship. I've carried one of these of an NAS with the New Testament, Psalms, and Proverbs with me for years and years, so that's why I wanted this to be the first one. JOIN Elevation Church Sunday Service with Steven Furtick at 2PM, 5PM, 8PM, 10PM, Live Stream (December-12-2021). One of the victims (Eileen Gray) in particular was shamed publically in front of the congregation by MacArthur for divorcing a David Gray who later was convicted of aggravated child molestation, corporal injury to a child, and child abuse. Grace Community Church parishioners make their way to Sunday service in Sun Valley on Sept. 13, 2020. 4) Wrong on all counts. [42] Furtick responded to this comment in his 2016 book Unqualified: How God Uses Broken People to Do Big Things. For the first time, John MacArthur publicly admitted Sunday that COVID-19 infections spread through his Southern California congregation last winter, noting he and his wife fell ill to the virus in December. Help us continue to be a voice for truth in the media by supporting CBN News for as little as $1. Would you add John Piper, Tim Keller and Alaister Begg to your bonfire? That is grotesque manipulation and a parody of the Gospel. Has First Dallas never handled any controversy or discipline case wrong? Btw, yes Im a pastor of a tiny church and I have worked multiple jobs all 20 years I have been at the church to make ends meet. MacArthur also refused to enforce mask and social distancing guidelines for congregants. Help us continue to be a voice for truth in the media by supporting CBN News for as little as $1. Whatever its founding intentions, we conclude that the Proclamation Trust is now a compromised organisation committed to the flawed teachings and practices of New Calvinism. Mutual Fund and ETF data provided by Refinitiv Lipper. "[37], MacArthur is an outspoken critic of same-sex marriage, the ordination of women, the Roman Catholic Church, and the social justice movement. issued his own declaration against the county, John MacArthur Warns Christians to Stop Making 'Alliances With Satan' in Remarks on Religious Liberty, Falsely Accused: John MacArthur's Grace Community Church 'Cleared of COVID-19 Outbreak', but Battle Rages On, 'It's Tyranny': Pastor MacArthur Will Get His Day in Court, Fighting CA Shutdown of Churches, Historic Win: John MacArthur Claims Victory in Lawsuit Over Church Restrictions, After Asbury Shutters Revival Services, Outpouring Moved to Lexington Arena: See Full Video Here, 'I Prayed in the Name of Jesus, and He Answered': Heroes Rescue 17,000 While 'Saving Aziz' in Afghanistan. Lumping every mega church together is not a healthy thing to do. Oh and sorry about the ironic and sarky remark about being mature enough for you! I dont agree that its always wrong to mock (otherwise Elijah, Paul and Jesus were wrong), and indeed sometimes mockery has its place. I surrendered to a calling of God. [41] MacArthur compared the assertion that sexual orientation is a born trait to a hypothetical bank robber's protestation, "I keep robbing banks, but I'm a robber. This is a really long post that deals almost exclusively, unfortunately, with secondary issues (church size, communications gifts, me focus, salary, wealth, size of house, and more) and thereby obscures the central and clarifying point of Furticks ministry. I would urge you to reread the comments by G White and your own responses to them before prayerfully replying. This is another attempt to pick a fight with another straw man. John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. (born June 19, 1939) is an American Protestant pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated Christian teaching radio and television program Grace to You. I have no idea if you are particularly legalistic or not but the type of comments you were making, most certainly are. Since then I have occasionally listened to a sermon, read articles and heard news programes, and watched as this Southern Baptist church has grown to a reported 20,000 plus. Someone feels free to go on the internet post serious accusations and then refuse to substantiate them. The remarks immediately following that statement seem to suggest that you are and illustrate the way in which you denigrate those with whom you disagree. An unknown man clad in black confronted Grace Community Church pastor John MacArthur during service on Sunday, Aug. av. Despite the considerable influence that they all had, they chose instead to publically endorse him. Its not the first time that youve responded aggressively when a pastor that you hold in such high regard is questioned. So I was pleased to see the topic addressed here, particularly as there is another story breaking about Mr Furtick in North Carolina even as I write this. He teaches a completely restored Israel shall inherit physical ownership of the land of Canaan on the earth. And this is my prayerful response (after sleeping on it!) MacArthur told her she needed to model for her children how to "suffer for Jesus" by enduring David's abuse. Grace Community Church, home to pastor-teacher John MacArthur, is located in Sun Valley, California and has been faithfully proclaiming God's Word since 1956. All rights reserved. And the notion that radical Islam is going to defeat the gospel is just as daft. Finally, you make the extremely serious accusation that I have caused disunity in the body of Christ by calling Matt Chandler a false teacher and by comparing him with Scott McKenna; both accusations are totally false and completely unacceptable. (2Tim. David, once again you are making assertions that do not stand scrutiny. To reject its claims is to call Him a liar. As for the scandal yes I was aware of it. or redistributed. Los Angeles County had sued the church and its pastor, John MacArthur, last August after officials said he had he opened the church and held a large indoor worship service with unmasked attendees . The screenshot below is from page 4 of Elevation Church's helpful Spontaneous Baptism How To Guide. Give me one example of Kellers irreverence? Its also a nasty wee trick to complain of someone remarks as being provocative, misleading and snide. This is way more than urging caution, as you later suggested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=vvjMUrPUfC4&app=desktop. You Wouldnt Be Dashing Him And Family And God House Stop being jealous Stop Counting The Heads In The Church And Start Counting Youre Blessing We Still Have A universe To Stand On And spreading the message good God And Getting People Ready For Whats About To Come..Btw Are You Ready For When God Comes? L.A. County has reportedly spent nearly $1 million in attorneys fees and other costs since the legal battle with Grace Community Church began. Please check your information and try again or call us at 1-800-759-0700. 1) I did not come on to your blog and say that Matt Chandler was not a good example of how the gospel should be lived. [3] MacArthur has written or edited more than 150 books, most notably the MacArthur Study Bible, which has sold more than one million copies, receiving a Gold Medallion Book Award. Where is the blessed self-forgetfulness? Its mainly a forlorn appeal but can we say to the mega churches please stop it! Yea not Steve but the ones who bash or become busy bodies against him. There's some really helpful information in there. ON the other hand you seem to be very quick to hand out your tongue lashing arrogance and childishness. [21][22], MacArthur argues that modern "visions, revelations, voices from heavendreams, speaking in tongues, prophecies, out-of-body experiences, trip to heaven, anointings, miracles all false, all lies, all deceptions attributed falsely to the Holy Spirit." Sadly, however, there are also times when you use it to bully, abuse and browbeat. Follow TheWeeFlea.com on WordPress.com Stephen Furtick is his own brand and it seems it is a brand that sells well and pays well. I'm a bank robber. including starting the Church Growth Movement which gave life to the pragmatism movement which as we know is so ubiquitous. For you to say that I did makes you guilty of the thing you wrongly accuse me of and it is quite reprehensible. I d not think there is any man alive especially a young man who could cope with this degree of adulation and not have his head explode with pride. As for your other points, Matt Chandlers church eventually acted only after a number of Christian magazines and websites had highlighted their initial inaction. I repeat again that I am aware of the failings of the mega church system and celebrity pastors. You state, Name calling really doesnt constitute argument does it? and yet you have no problem with calling me dishonest. Finally, I just checked my Amazon app and what do you know, the book I mentioned is still for sale at 3.50 and there are 8 copies left. [19] He is one of the most prominent voices in American Christianity against the continuationist beliefs of Pentecostalism and the Charismatic Movement, which assert that God continues to confer sign gifts today. The reality is that you have a bunch of people who want pastors to be poor while they make fortunes off of fake news. You've successfully subscribed to this newsletter! Truth in love. But, thank God, I have been able to study the bible for 50 years and, although I acknowledge that I have probably only scratched the surface of the riches of His grace, I do not recognise Furticks message as balanced and biblical. I find this very revealing. Excellent post! A decade later, he announced he had retracted this view via an article from Grace to You. [10], While at Bob Jones University in South Carolina, MacArthurs father recruited him to the Voice of Calvary singing quartet, often broadcast on Christian radio in Southern California. My point was that its not only out and out heretics, such as McKenna, who are a danger to the church. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. In the sermon above Stephen lets out a wee quip at the beginning when responding to some criticism go start your own church. [27][28][29], MacArthur describes himself as a "leaky dispensationalist. In 2012, at the annual Shepherd's Conference, MacArthur was participating in a word association questionnaire when the moderator gave the name "Steven Furtick." I did read your comments. For what its worth, I fully support your stand in almost everything else. However, Chandler did choose to turn a blind eye to the unbiblical teaching and behaviour of Mark Driscoll, as did Piper and Keller. I challenged that because I regard these as serious charges and not to made lightly against a Christian brother. 1) You came on my blog page and accused Matt Chandler of not being a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived. John MacArthur, pastor of the popular Grace Community megachurch, is recovering from a sudden onset of illness. "[26] He has a complementarian view on gender roles and considers that the Bible forbids women to preach to men or to exercise authority over men in churches, and he believes that the Biblical roles of elder and pastor are restricted to men. John MacArthur, senior pastor of Grace Community Church in Los Angeles and founder of his ministry Grace to You, was one of the reported 4,000 pastors who preached last Sunday against. John MacArthur was able to summarize Furtick as a minister with one word: unqualified. To be really honest, I find it very difficult to muster up any Christian love for you when you respond to people in this way, though I do recognise that this is something I need Gods help with and forgiveness for. Jenna . [1] He has been the pastor of Grace Community Church, a non-denominational church in Sun Valley, California since February 9, 1969. His church takes in $500,000 per weekcertainly it has given $10 million over a decade to other causes, but for a congregation which is taking in over $26 million a year, that is hardly sacrificial giving. Marantha! It is quite shocking. [14] In 1986, he was made President of the new Master's Seminary. He has been the pastor of Grace Community Church, a non-denominational church in Sun Valley, California since February 9, 1969. The incident referred to was a very serious matter and Christian publications in th USA documented the churchs mishandling of it, which was why I had urged caution. The news clip above catalogues the controversy about his $1.8 million new build house caused. You are aware of them as you demonstrated when writing about Mr Furtick. (At this point I am of course aware of the same danger for myself and it certainly does act as a warning to me! yes it was dishonest of you to misrepresent my position as some pastors are untouchable. Elevation Church were accused of getting volunteers to come forward during the spontaneous baptism services, in order to encourage others to get up out of their seats. But again I explained why I chose Dallas. [20] The event featured a number of speakers who argued for cessationist theology and strongly critiqued the Charismatic Movement. Having said that I followed the mega church scene in the USA I was aware of what was going on in Dallas and in other places too. MacArthur, 83, was preaching Sunday service earlier this week when he reportedly said he felt ill. But it takes a lot of hard work, time, and money to do what we do. MacArthur responded, "Go home." Nevertheless, you continued to misrepresent what I had said, and you continue to do so, even after prayerfully sleeping on it. On February 9, 1969, he was hired as the third and youngest pastor at the nondenominational Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California. Well, given that many years ago I encouraged one of our young people to complete his studies at Spurgeons College and accept an internship at First Dallas Baptist, it would have to be that one. They are often more concerned about whether they like the music than they are about whether they are hearing the truth. If theyre charities (and I suspect many of them will be) then theyre monitored by OSCR, and will have to submit yearly, independently audited, accounts. This photo posted to Twitter by Phil Johnson shows a full sanctuary at Grace Church on Sunday, July 26, 2020. New International Version But you came on to my blog and posted something which is typical of the new legalists and endorsed a book which attacks gospel preachers such as Keller, Piper and the Proc Trust. He did say that some of his views reflected the old style Liberation Theology and Social Gospel, confusion over eternal punishment and other things. as there are with me. More a worry that this kind of thing will take deeper root here. In 2019, at the Truth Matters Conference, during another word association questionnaire, MacArthur was given the prompt "Beth Moore". [25], MacArthur has stated that he opposes both "male chauvinist and feminist views. Im sorry, but I didnt state that I had written to you in love, though I did try very hard to temper my comment to you. MacArthur has written three books on the subject. The writer of Hebrews 12:14 states frankly that only those who continue living holy lives will enter the Lord's presence." Also available on most smart TVs and streaming services. Dear David, 23,12! Powered and implemented by FactSet Digital Solutions. Again as an author who is tempted to mention or quote from my couple of books in every sermon, I sympathise. It demonstrates a mindset that says this is MY church. The preachers admission came amid news that Grace Community Church in Sun Valleyreceived an $800,000 settlement from Los Angeles County after defying pandemic-induced health orders. And also trying to get to know what God says in His Word and please stop shouting at those you know nothing about. [51] They have four children, fifteen grandchildren, and had two great-grandsons by 2017. This submission to Jesus as Lord when converting to faith in Jesus Christ became known to Arminians as the Lordship salvation controversy in the 1980s. He is a ministry collaborator with . (Genaro Molina / Los Angeles Times via Getty Images), Even as the pastor was sick, the church elder remained upbeat, adding, "Its pretty pretty amazing we have guys with sermons in their Bibles wherever you go and so Mikes going to be here.". That is just nuts. [4], The grandson of Canadian Anglican minister Harry MacArthur (died 1950) and son of Baptist radio preacher Jack MacArthur (born in Calgary, Canada)[5] and Irene Dockendorf, MacArthur was born in Los Angeles. For me there is no doubt that some of Scotlands independent churches and ministries, need to be investigated re their finances..question is who does it?. PS Im a huge Chandler fan over here. And if the thousands of baptisms represent thousands of people coming to Christ, how could one not rejoice? But we must not quote our own books in sermons as far as possible! Ironically tu quoque was what you were using about Chandler (as well as ad hom). 5) Yes the legalism one still stands. But to me that is clear what it is. Sitting in a restaurant in Charleston, North Carolina, we were delighted to meet a group of four men, who included a young man from the UK, who was working for a church called Elevation in Charlotte. Your lack of apology (at very least regarding your amazon remarks) has only served to highlight the arrogance and childishness that you displayed in your replies. I follow the goings-on of the mega church para church neocalvinist movement (call it what you will) in the USA and am frequently astounded by their antics. You rightly speak out against the Scott McKennas of this world but you seem to have a blind spot where certain pastors are concerned. 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